Championing E. Christopher Clark: That Time I Interviewed my Worldbuilding Hero
Take a few moments to get to know comic author and illustrator E. Christopher Clark and then, go support his second "Blood of Seven Queens" (3-5) physical and ebook comic book campaign on Kickstarter.
Alright, y’all. Chris Clark is my god-damn worldbuilding hero, and I’m disappointed and frustrated that the Kickstarter campaign for The Blood of Seven Queens issues 3-5 is barely half-funded.
I stopped writing for more than two decades, and when I came back to it—seriously and with dedication beyond just passion—Chris Clark was one of the first friends I made. We met through the community surrounding WorldAnvil (my favorite writing software and lore wiki toolset), because I read—and commented on—one of his articles about how Aslan and the Cowardly Lion are related.
The fuck you say?! I was in desperate admiration of this man’s ability to take these two disparate characters, related only through their anthropomorphized leonine appearance, and make them…well, I have the article linked below, in the interview; go read it for yourself.
I did this interview last fall, just before the holidays. I’m republishing it now, because it already says all of the things I want to say to encourage you to read his work, and then buy his comics.
I figured I would use some of the goodwill that I’ve earned in the Fictionstack community to sprinkle some Moonlight Magic on him.
Meet your new favorite comic author, then, go buy his comics. And maybe, just maybe, in the process lure him into
or even .Why?
When I think about my life as a writer, one of my favorite things is getting to hang out with other writers. In many cases, it’s a weird overlap between professional networking and friends with common passions.
But sometimes, you manage to find a professional friend…whose work you also absolutely adore, and whom you low-key suspect of being yourself in a different body. So, you become a fan. And, because you’re professional friends, you find quiet (and loud) ways to nag them into doing that project that they teased.
If you’re very, very lucky, that project will turn out even better than you wanted it to be.
Those of you who are familiar with Chris already know what a delightful treat is ahead, and those of you who are not yet familiar with
(and his newsletter, ) are the luckiest Moonbeams in the community.
Haly, the Moonlight Bard
Holy holy holy holy holy cats, Chris Clark!!! I sincerely cannot thank you enough for agreeing to this interview, especially with the Holidays being such a busy season!
I know that you already know I'm a fan, but I don't think I've ever told you that you are the first person whose writing really enchanted me and pulled me in when I discovered WorldAnvil. It was like...Oh! It's not just me doing this, there are other really talented and creative people all over this place! I'm pretty sure that following you was what introduced me to others like Kummer and Mochi.
Thank you so very much for agreeing to this and sharing your time with me today!!
echristopherclark
You’re welcome. As a longtime creative writing teacher, I’ve always kinda seen it as my responsibility to introduce the writers I meet to other writers they might love. I’m so glad to hear that my writing could be a gateway drug, so to speak, to other fabulously talented folks.
I've known for months now that I wanted this specific interview for January because of the topic: pillaging the public domain for storytelling and worldbuilding inspiration.
Why?
Because every new year brings on a slew of new art that is entering the public domain! I hope that many people will remember how 2023 saw the release of a Winnie the Pooh-inspired horror movie, and one featuring Steamboat Willie Mickey Mouse, is in the works as well! This coming year will see Popeye the Sailor -- who was held tightly by King Features Syndicate all through our childhood -- enter the public domain, along with one of my favorite music compositions ever, Ravel's Bolero.
Disney, as a company, is famous for having built the foundation of their media empire from the public domain -- stories such as Snow White, Sleeping Beauty, and Cinderella are still cornerstones of their modern marketing machine!!
And you, too, Chris: your current work -- the worldbuilding, lore, and characters of your current comic series, The Blood of Seven Queens -- deals entirely with reimagining and reinventing all of these beloved characters into entirely new, and still familiar caricatures of themselves. So let's start there...what drew you to the Public Domain, and what's kept you there?
When I think of the earliest stories I was exposed to, they were Disney movies, Star Wars, the Ray Harryhausen version of Clash of the Titans from 1981, the 1939 Wizard of Oz that came on TV like once a year, the insanely creepy Return to Oz from 1985, and these awesome introduction to Marvel Comics hardcover collections that I borrowed from the Children's House at the Chelmsford Public Library.
Oh, and the Doubleday Illustrated Children's Bible, which is about the only religious education I ever received.
Point is, whether they were based on characters from the public domain or just well-established archetypes and tropes, the stories I grew up on were EPIC—and those became the kind of stories I wanted to write myself.
As for what's kept me so interested in the public domain, and specifically in fairy tale characters, it's all about the crossover potential. My main reading material, from my teens through my twenties and into my early thirties, were comic books. The first comic I bought with my own money was Uncanny X-Men #268, the cover of which promised a team-up between Wolverine, Captain America, and Black Widow. I was just hooked on the idea of characters from one world popping up in the world of someone else.
So when my college did a production of Into the Woods back in the mid-90s, a musical that brings all sorts of fairy tale characters together, I went to every performance. Then, around the same time, Vertigo Comics put out Fables. That comic, if you're not familiar, was set in present day New York City and followed fairy tale characters who'd been driven out of their homeland by a mysterious adversary. I remember the guy at the comic store selling me on it by saying, "Imagine that every Prince Charming in every fairy tale was the same Prince Charming."
That was exactly what sold me on the television show Once Upon A Time, imagine that all of the old fairy tales took place in the same world. Boom, just like that you've got me for at least a season.
So, the selling point to this series -- that I and many other of your fans pushed you to write after you idly asked "would anyone be interested in...?" one day -- is what if Red Riding Hood grew up to be the Queen of Hearts.
These are two iconic and very recognizable figures to almost everyone. And yet Frieda Jacobs is very much her own person. She's recognizable in both of these roles -- both through what we're seeing in her story, as well as certain personal characteristics and choices that have been displayed. How do you establish and then maintain the balance between unique and familiar?
For me, at least, what I know about Red Riding Hood at my core ends when she's a little kid. And for me, the Queen of Hearts, at least in most of the adaptations I've encountered, exists kind of without a childhood. That's what made the question of "What if Red Riding Hood grew up to be the Queen of Hearts?" so intriguing to me. By combining these two relatively thin (in terms of characterization) individuals from folklore, I'm that much closer to a well-rounded character. But then there's also plenty of room for personal touches.
I think, when it comes to the Frieda we're seeing in the first twelve issues of Seven Queens, the Frieda before she's even adopted the title Queen of Hearts—let alone become the older version we're all familiar with—the important thing is the cape. Give her the cape and the picnic basket and the big bad wolf and folks are in. From there, she's kind of a blank canvas.
On the other end, what we're working towards (the Queen of Hearts) is a woman who seems unhinged, who's always calling for beheadings and whatnot. So long as I'm not introducing some aspect of character that makes that evolution seem impossible, I think I've got a lot of latitude. It's once we get to the end that folks will judge whether or not the evolution feels authentic. No pressure!
Alright, Professor. Let's talk about archetypes! Both Red Riding Hood and the Queen of Hearts are what I like to call Very Archetypal Characters. That is: they are characters who are ONLY archetypes, they are only defined by their role in the story -- not even their relationship to the hero, as Tracy Hickman teaches -- but only by their function within the story. Their personality, if they have one, is likewise only defined by the archetype they are designed to fulfill.
Lewis Carroll is my favorite example of this. I love...LOVE...Alice's Adventures in Wonderland. It is one of my favorite books of all time. But it is not an example of detailed character-building and development. Even Alice herself, as a hero, isn't someone we particularly care about. She cannot make a decision to save her own life. Literally.
But this is all OK because we're not meant to care about these people, they're not even meant to have personalities. They are, from the very moment we open the book, meant to alleviate boredom.
I feel the same way about Luke Skywalker, though for different reasons.
My point: I think we see the same trend in modern fiction as well where contemporary authors are frequently mistaking "archetype" as "personality." Where do you think this is coming from...is it an American trend where it's a reflection of how capitalism defines us by our jobs, or is it reflective of carrying over trends from the public domain, or is it something else entirely?
I wonder if it's about ease and comfort, both for the writer and for the reader. We live in very uncertain and divisive times. While we still want the escape that stories can provide, do we maybe gravitate more towards the ultra-familiar (archetypes and clichés and tropes, oh my!) because we just want something comfortable in our lives?
I mean, there's certainly an appetite for the incredibly familiar out there. How else do we explain the existence of the Hallmark Channel? And who can blame the author struggling to earn a living if they opt to take the safe route and cater exclusively to the market?
I grew up on Scholastic books and serials like Sweet Valley and Nancy Drew, LOL! My in-development novel series relies deeply on the nostalgia for that sort of pulp marketing, and I plan for it to be a very formulaic sort of entertainment. I absolutely get that.
This is so reflective of another conversation I've been having about media's current fear of investing in anything new, and so they keep flooding the market with the same franchise options which have to get wilder and wilder in order to not get repetetive. Soap operas, WWE, and reality television shows are key examples of this.
Cheers had to end to make room for something new. We miss it, we cherish it, because we never had the chance to get bored with it. Friends had to end...same story. Doctor Who just...keeps...going. Like a zombie who comes back as a vampire who comes back as a litch who comes back as a recycled god.
How do you think that reinterpretations of "more modern" media -- and I'm speaking specifically of stories by Disney, Alfred Hitchcock, and Agatha Christie; storytellers who have a huge impact on our contemporary storytellers and artists -- will change the landscape?
Or, really, how do you HOPE it will change the landscape?
Well, one thing I always told my students was that they had to promise not to lose their own voice—that it was their voice which was irreplaceable. I think the problem with trying to do straight-up Hitchcock or Christie or Disney is that we aren't Hitchcock, Christie, or Disney. We're us. We can pay tribute to those folks, but we have to plant our own Freak Flags in the sand at the start of every project and always use them as our north star.
Jordan Peele's work isn't resonating because he's doing his best Hitchcock impression. He's certainly walking in those footsteps, but he's putting his own spin on it.
I guess, to answer the last question, the way I hope that reinterpretations of "more modern" media will change the landscape is that folks who crave the familiar will discover new voices based on the tributes and homages they're doing, and that those new voices will then get the chance to do put their quirkiest work in front of the big old audience it deserves.
I think when people hear the term 'public domain' they most often think "free to do whatever I want with." Is that really the case, or are there things that creators still need to watch out for? And what's your go-to resource for making sure that something is well and truly IN the public domain?
There are definitely things to watch out for—especially with things that have been in the public domain for a while. My favorite example has always been the ruby slippers from the Wizard of Oz. We think of those as being so iconic, but in the initial book they're silver shoes and not ruby slippers. The ruby slippers were an invention for the screen (to take advantage of how awesome the studios thought the relatively new invention of Technicolor was). For the longest time, if you used those ruby slippers then you were asking for a lawsuit. I think that's changing soon, but don't take my word for it. Do your research and/or stick with what's in the original text!
As for a go-to resource, I never rely on just one but I typically start with Wikipedia. For most things that have gone public domain in recent memory, there's a section about the legal battles surrounding the character, setting, or idea. Then, because I never trust Wikipedia by its lonesome, I'll check the sources cited by the article.
TV Tropes has a page on public domain characters that can also be a good starting point, if you're not even sure where to begin.
TV Tropes is really a hero of the internet, especially for creatives!!
We've touched on quite a few things already, comics and shows that remake our favorite characters, but if you had to pick ONE favorite retelling at this moment in time, what would it be and why is it your top right now?
Twist my arm, why don'tcha?! Picking just one is hard, but I think I can, I think I can. Rather than listing one of the ones I've already alluded to, I'll throw one of my all-time favorites out there: William Shakespeare's Romeo + Juliet, the 1996 Baz Luhrmann fever dream of an adaptation set in "Verona Beach" that's actually a pretty faithful adaptation (as the words go). The aesthetic of that is so 100% what I'm aiming for with parts of The Blood of Seven Queens that it hurts.
Holy cats, yes! I'm also a HUGE fan of the 1999 Michael Hoffman A Midsummer Night's Dream! Ewardian Shakespeare?! Yes, please! From one ridiculous set of social rules to a completely different and, in many ways, opposite! Love it.
Chris, we're coming to the end, but one of the best parts about an interview -- in my opinion, at least -- is giving my guests the opportunity to shine a spotlight not only on themselves and their own work (like Issue #3), but also other voices in the community. So, Chris Clark, this is your moment to SHINE!!!
Thanks so much! I'm super-excited about The Blood of Seven Queens #3, which I'm working on now. In it, I have fun blending together the fairy tale of "Rumplestiltskin" with a bit of Arthurian legend. It's a format that I'll be using in many issues to come, inspired by shows like Lost and Once Upon a Time and their blend of flashbacks and present-day plots. I'll be launching a Kickstarter for the issue in January and shipping copies out by the beginning of February.
I'm really happy that folks pushed me to start putting the series out. It's taking longer than I'd like to put each issue into the world, but at least I'm getting there. Slowly but surely!
As for shining a spotlight on other members of the community, there are so many who are deserving but two come immediately to mind. Chris L., better known as Kitoypoy, is a Filipino-American creator who injects his own culture into his fantasy setting the World of Wizard's Peak. And the way he does it is always entertaining and often eye-opening. Reconsidering fantasy tropes through the Filipino-American lens like Chris does is exactly the kind of thing I was talking about earlier: he's using his voice and his experience to make these tried-and-true concepts unique.
The other person I'll shout out here is a constant light in the World Anvil community: Dr. Emily Vair-Turnbull, better known as Serukis. But I want to shout out her work and not just her constant support of others' work. Her world of Etrea is one of my favorites to read about, and the way that she embraces her own particular interests and obsessions is great. You'll find lots of stuff about mushrooms there, for instance. Lots! Her elevator pitch for the world is: "Five and a half thousand years ago, the world of Etrea awakened with no memory of what had come before. Scant ruins and fragmented dreams are all that remain of the past."
I love how small the worldbuilding community can be, LOL! I'm pretty sure that I've got both of those names scrawled on a list around here...
Chris, I cannot thank you enough for the ENORMOUS amounts of time that you've devoted to this interview. This has been a wonderful ball of fun, and I am immeasurably grateful to you for sharing with us all. Thank you so much.
Thank you! It's been a blast to talk shop in such a fun forum!
Coming This Week:
Saturday Quick Six: Pop Culture
Sunday Digest: A wrap-up of the wrap-ups!
Manic Monday: Tropes and Worldbuilding
